Forgot!
oh..btw...im 91 percent postmodern/emergent...which was a little bit surprising...but I'm thinking Im more of a product of my environment than I thought...is anyone else confused with major 'moral' issues? maybe confused is not quite the right word, but i'm definetly questioning the strong right/wrong of homosexuality...not personally to clarify, but just for those that i work with, those that I love. There are really two area's of thought...one, that it's a choice...something that you prefer, something developed, and then the generally accepted one by the public, and the gay community, that its a part of you...that its something that you are born/and created with. Now experience has been telling me...true to form, that it is both...or at least it looks like both. Some, strongly confident in who they are, believe that the more honest they are with themselves and with others: they are gay...and always have been...or they as women or men, prefer their own sex...and strongly believe (and frankly i feel quite respectful of that) they don't think there is anything wrong with that...and then there is the other group of people...the confused...I feel like some people are pressured to pick. Now or never...if you are effeminate as a man, you GOTTA pick...are you gay? are you straight? I found myself asking someone the other day, we had been talking about how starbucks always has to have a token gay man or woman (which is somewhat true, they put high value in diversity and representing the communities we are in...which i love) and i just asked a friend...are you? gay that is? yeah...i feel like i didn't even give him a chance to have a gray...to have an opt out with me, i just pigeon holed him...Is homosexuality an issue we are botching in the bible? What i mean is, after however many years we are now letting woman lead in churches (years after the 'world' had undone injustices done to woman wtih things like pay equity etc) and now i wonder if we are not doing the same with the gays of our communities? Now now those that have hair sticking up on the back of their necks (either because they think i've gone to liberal or either because they think i haven't gone far enough) bear with me...forgive me...and be patient with me...I'm learning. Somewhat agonizing for me, what I'm seeing isn't always coresponding as easily as I"ve been told it would....but thankfully Jesus is here in it. Ok...lots o ranting...feel free to comment, or email me if you don't want to publically agree or disagree, i'd really like to hear it.
posted by betty at 11:19 PM
4 Comments:
Hey Bets...
I liked your post. The disclaimer was a nice touch...
About the whole homosexual issue. Straight up, I think it's wrong (sorry to all of you who hate puns).
If homosexuality as outlined in the Bible (and by Doug Heidebrecht in Hermeneutics) is a sin, then it needs to be treated like other sins. Relating it to women, well, last time I checked - it wasn't anywhere listed that my gender is morally wrong.
Perhaps it is a natural inkling that people are born with, and want to pursue. Some people are also born liars. Some are 'naturally' jealous. Some get a rush out of stealing. We were born into a sinful world, with a sinful human nature. Homosexuality might just be a part of that.
One teacher here mentioned how she went to seminary with a man who struggled with homosexuality. Yes. Struggled. It was something, a sinful nature, that he had to CHOOSE to overcome.
Perhaps the church has done a bad job at addressing the reality of homosexuality in a gender-confused environment. The world says it's a viable option. The Bible says it's sin. The church says we need to overcome sins in our life, and choose righteousness. I think homosexuality falls into that category.
Thanks for the thought provoking read. Hope that Starbucks is treating you well. Don't get me wrong. I can love gay people. Like my cousin. I don't agree with the choice to practice that lifestyle though.
Love ya Bets.
Sabrina
1/4 - sorry I didn't get your call last night... we'll talk yet!
On to the issue at hand: now do you understand my dilemma of the last few years? Reading Sabrina's post I can acknowledge all of what she says. Yet there is this piece of me that voices every idea you just did. How can I say to someone who deep down in their very core of cores feels like they were made this way, that that part of who they are isn't right and that they need to change their life? I don't get it. I honestly don't... there is truth I know, but then there is this love and compassion in my heart that I don't know how to balance. I am jealous that you are in the world where you get to love people in such a tangible, Godly way. Keep it up - Just remember, ultimately you're walking with Jesus and his love and truth are all you need.
Hey Betty good questions. First off let me give you a really good site to go and check out http://newdirection.ca/ They have lots of really good biblical answers, as well as many suggestions for how to address the issue.
Straight away I need to say that I believe that Homosexuality is a sin, the same as any other form of sexual immorality. When dealing with the issue it is important not to stray too far into personal opinions and away from the things that God has said.
Now that said, we as a church have done a pretty poor job of reaching out the homosexual community, and I am sure Jesus is probably more upset with the church's zealous "holier than thou attitude" as he is with the lost homosexuals of this world.
Are people born homosexual? I have met quite a few homosexuals who would sat that they were born that way, but when you look closer into their family and the way that they talk about their family (especially their father) it often looks like environment played a huge role in their decisions. Those first three years of life can be huge, in terms of development and such. ok, the long and short of it is, we will probably never get to the bottom of the Nature vs. Nurture debate so we must move on!
How do we deal with homosexuality? Well first to paraphrase Donald Miller, we live in a broken world and it is ridicules to ask broken people to act like they are fixed. To push the morals of the Christian life on a non-believer is (I think) pretty ridicules, we can show them the better way of life, a more fulfilling way of life, but as long as they are still seekers (I hate the "them" and "us" terminology but how do you get away from it?) we cannot force them to live like a Christian.
However! Once you have decided to follow Christ, things change.
Jak asked,
"If a homosexual person were wanting to go to your church, believe in the bible, and serve God, would you deny thier help and involvement because of thier sexual orientation? Or would you love them anyway? Not trying to change them, but just loving what you don't necessarily understand."
First off of course I would love them for who they are. Would I make them change, without a doubt!! Jesus calls for change and anyone who thinks that they can follow Christ without becoming uncomfortable and challenged is probably not following the real Jesus (ask me later what N.T. Wright says about that)
So would I let a homosexual volunteer in my youth group?
The answer is yes and no.
If we say that homosexuality is a sin that they will wrestle with the rest of their life, like the person addicted to porn or lying, gossip, alcohol, etc. but this person is striving to live a Godly life free from Sexual immorality than yes, I would let them work in the church. Because he/she is making an effort to walk in purity with God.
But would I let a practicing homosexual who doesn't want to change and is living for self work in the church? nope! For the same reason I wouldn't want a heterosexual person who is indulging in premarital sex, or living with their partner working with them either.
Here is something I just thought of …that sort of works…. Sort of.
An Alcoholic is a person with a genetic disorder that makes them feel like the NEED a drink, once they become a Christian do we allow them to continue their destructive behavior and hurt their family or do we challenge them to change and live like God wants. The Alcoholic will always struggle with the need for a drink, but they learn to stay away from it. In the same way, even if we say that Homosexuality is a genetic thing, they must still learn to change their life to live the way God wants.
Now one final thought. I know Betty that you brought up the question, but I also feel that we spend way to much time on the sexual sins (probably because their flashy and sexy, pardon the pun) but we can't put homosexuality on this pedestal as "the worst sin" our churches are also full of prideful, greedy, selfish men and women who need Jesus as much as anyone else....
I sure hope that this all comes across as being a loving comment... I have a really good friend who is homosexual and I do love him for the man that he is, but I do disagree with the lifestyle that he has chosen, and I can see the negative effects that it is having on him, so as I write this I’m writing if from the experience of a person who is walking through the issue right now, and I have seen the harm that Christians have done to him, and it makes me sick. But I still believe that his choices are wrong….. whew, that was long one! later
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